Curse

lilnate22 · Oct 19, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

i was recently browsing thru this forum and found this article

Quote:

60 levels, 30+ epics, a few really good "real life" friends, a seat on the oldest and largest guild on our server's council, 70+ days "/played," and one "real" year later...

Mr. Yeager asked me to write this "guest blog" for him. I figured I should oblige him this request - it was none other than Mr. Yeager who first introduced me to (begged for me to buy, actually :-p) the World of Warcraft. It was the "perfect storm" for me; a time in my life when I was unemployed, living at my family's house far from my friends, and had just finished my engineering degree and was taking a little time to find a job. I had a lot of free time on my hands and WoW gave me a place to spend it.

This could be a many page epic tale, but I figure I'd give you the brief history and pertinent information. The guild Mr. Yeager got me into and with which I became an officer is the oldest and largest on the server I played on. It is around 18 months old and extremely well-versed in endgame instances. I was both the "mage class lead" and an officer. I have many very good friends I met through WoW (in real life - no kidding) and even have been "involved" with another councilor in real life (yes, I know, I'm weird for meeting girls through an online video game but honestly, ask Mr. Yeager, she's head and shoulders better than all the girls I met DJing, waiting tables, in college, and bartending at clubs in Philly). But I digress...

I just left WoW permanently. I was a leader in one of the largest and most respected guilds in the world, a well-equipped and well-versed mage, and considered myself to have many close friends in my guild. Why did I leave? Simple: Blizzard has created an alternate universe where we don't have to be ourselves when we don't want to be. From my vantage point as a guild decision maker, I've seen it destroy more families and friendships and take a huge toll on individuals than any drug on the market today, and that means a lot coming from an ex-club DJ.

It took a huge personal toll on me. To illustrate the impact it had, let's look at me one year later. When I started playing, I was working towards getting into the best shape of my life (and making good progress, too). Now a year later, I'm about 30 pounds heavier that I was back then, and it is not muscle. I had a lot of hobbies including DJing (which I was pretty accomplished at) and music as well as writing and martial arts. I haven't touched a record or my guitar for over a year and I think if I tried any Kung Fu my gut would throw my back out. Finally, and most significantly, I had a very satisfying social life before. My friends and I would go out and there were things to do every night of the week. Now a year later, I realize my true friends are the greatest people in the world because the fact I came out of my room, turned the lights on, and watched a movie with them still means something. They still are having a great time teasing me at my expense, however, which shows they still love me and they haven't changed.

These changes are miniscule, however, compared to what has happened in quite a few other people's lives. Some background... Blizzard created a game that you simply can not win. Not only that, the only way to "get better" is to play more and more. In order to progress, you have to farm your little heart out in one way or another: either weeks at a time PvPing to make your rank or weeks at a time getting materials for and "conquering" raid instances, or dungeons where you get "epic loot" (pixilated things that increase your abilities, therefore making you "better"). And what do you do after these mighty dungeons fall before you and your friend's wrath? Go back the next week (not sooner, Blizzard made sure you can only raid the best instances once a week) and do it again (imagine if Alexander the Great had to push across the Middle East every damn week).

What does this mean? Well, to our average "serious" player this equates to anywhere between 12 hours (for the casual and usually "useless" player) to honestly 10 hours a day, seven days a week for those "hardcore" gamers. During my stint, I was playing about 30 hours a week (and still finding it hard to keep up with my farming) and logging on during my work day in order to keep up with all the guild happenings and to do my scheduling and tracking for the raids. A lot of time went into the development of new policies which took our friendly and family-oriented guild further and further away from its roots but closer to the end goal. Honestly, what that end goal is I'm not totally sure - there is truly no end to the game and every time you feel like you're satisfied with your progress, another aspect of the game is revealed and, well, you just aren't as cool as you can be again.

There are three problems that arise from WoW: the time it requires to do anything "important" is astounding, it gives people a false sense of accomplishment, and when you're a leader, and get wrapped up in it, no matter how much you care or want people to care, you're doing the wrong thing.

First off, let's go back to the time it takes to accomplish anything in the game. To really be successful, you need to at least invest 12 hours a week, and that is bare minimum. From a leadership perspective, that 12 hours would be laughed at. That's the guy who comes unprepared to raid and has to leave half way through because he has work in the morning or is going out or some other thing that shows "lack of commitment". To the extreme there is the guildie who is always on and ready to help. The "good guildie" who plays about 10 hours a day and seven days a week. Yes, that's almost two full-time jobs. Funny, no one ever asks any questions, though.

The worst though are the people you know have time commitments. People with families and significant others. I am not one to judge a person's situation, but when a father/husband plays a video game all night long, seven days a week, after getting home from work, very involved instances that soak up hours and require concentration, it makes me queasy that I encouraged that. Others include the kids you know aren't doing their homework and confide in you they are failing out of high school or college but don't want to miss their chance at loot, the long-term girl/boyfriend who is skipping out on a date (or their anniversary - I've seen it) to play (and in some cases flirt constantly), the professional taking yet another day off from work to farm mats or grind their reputations up with in-game factions to get "valuable" quest rewards, etc... I'm not one to tell people how to spend their time, but it gets ridiculous when you take a step back.

The game also provides people with a false sense of security, accomplishment, and purpose. Anyone can be a superhero here if they have the time to put in. Not only that, a few times I've seen this breed the "rockstar" personality in people who have no confidence at all in real life. Don't get me wrong, building confidence is a good thing and something, if honed appropriately, the game can do very right. But in more than a few cases, very immature people with bad attitudes are catered to (even after insulting or degrading others "in public") because they are "better" than the rest. Usually this means they played a lot more and have better gear. I'd really hate to see how this "I'm better than you attitude" plays out in real life where it means jack how epic your loot is - when you say the wrong thing to the wrong person it's going to have repercussions and you can't just log out to avoid the effects of your actions.

And people put everything on the line for these accomplishments with which they associate much value. I know of children and spouses being forced to play and grind for their parents, threats of divorce, rampant neglect, failing grades in school, and thousands of dollars spent on "outsourcing" foreign help. For what, you ask? Honor. The desire to be the best for at least one week. To get the best loot in the game. What do these "heroes" receive? Why, cheers and accolades of course as they parade along in their new shiny gear... which is obsolete the first time they step into one of the premier instances. The accomplishment and sacrifice itself are meaningless a few days later. Then it's usually off to the races again.

Finally, when you're a leader there is a call (or more appropriately a demand) for success. Usually those you represent want to keep progressing. They want to keep improving. They want more access to the best things. It is on you to provide it. In my experience, when you fail to progress fast enough, waves ripple throughout the guild and people become dissatisfied. It's your fault, no matter what. Everything you've done to keep things fair and provide for everyone does not mean a damn thing. A few will stand up for you, but when you have 150 people who all want 150 different things, you end up listening to 150 voices complaining about the job you're doing. This volunteer job usually takes at least 10 extra hours a week (on top of regular playing). Towards the end of my year of service, I apparently couldn't do anything right with my class. I had to rotate people to make sure everyone was getting a fair shot. I wrote actual mathematical proofs the allowed for fair and effective (yes, both) raid distribution according to efficiency, speed, and guild class population. I even rotated myself more than any other class member. People still took it upon themselves to tell me what I was doing wrong (constantly) and how their way was more fair (usually for them).

The thing that kicked me in the ass more than anything else was I really cared if my guildies were getting what they wanted out of the experience. I truly thought my efforts would make them happy. I wanted to make a difference to them. The greedy and socially phobic high school kid I thought I could help through the game, all of the couples (both married and not) who were falling apart because of the game I thought I could rescue, the girl who was deeply wounded by a guy who left her for the game but was herself addicted I thought I could save, not to mention a host of others, I thought my efforts were helping. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks: I was providing them with an escape from their problems and nurturing the very thing that was holding them back. Oh yeah, it hit me like a ton of bricks after I had changed so much and lost enough of myself that the most wonderful girl I ever met broke up with me.

I remember clearly after fumbling around life for a few weeks that I dragged myself into the bathroom to get ready for work. I was tired because I was up until close to 2 AM raiding. Every week I read though email or I would run into one of my "real" friends and I'd hear "Andy, what's up, I haven't seen you in a while." I looked in the mirror and in a cinemaesque turn of events and a biblical moment of clarity, told myself "I haven't seen me in a while either."

That did it. I wanted to do the things I wanted to do again and be with the people who appreciated me even if I abandoned them for a year and sucked to high heaven as a friend. The prodigal son returned and my friends were happy. The best advice I got was from the girl who dumped me for being a jackass (and after I decided to really quit and be "myself again" became one of, if not my best friend in the entire world), who said "your real friends like you even when you screw up." It's true.

Funny side note was the reaction I got from the guild that I spent a year pouring my heart and soul into. I made my post in the guild forums saying I was leaving (half of it RPing - something that doesn't happen after you start raiding) and that it was time for me to move on. Three days later I didn't exist any more. The machine kept on moving without this gear. A few people asked me over email (and when I logged on to clean out the old bank) when I was coming back (I'm not going to). There are a few others I keep in contact with and am planning on going to visit sooner or later so I can hang out in person and they can finally meet me. But in the end being forgotten about so soon after still left a bittersweet taste. But one that was a lot easier to swallow than the one I chugged down every day for the better part of a year.

Don't get me wrong, WoW did a lot of things right. At times it was a fun game that allowed me to keep in contact with friends who lived far away. More importantly it introduced me to some of the best real life friends I've ever met. However, it did take an undeniable toll on me and is taking a far greater one on many, many people when taken too far.

and i realized how grateful i am that anet does not charge a monthly fee.

now imagine if you had to pay say $15 a month like WoW to play GW... wouldnt you be some what FORCED to play enuf so you get "bang for your buck"?

since GW charges no monthly fee i am free to stop anytime i want and continue anytime i want.

that bieng said thank you anet and ne other person that works there

Ork Pride · Oct 19, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Dear god that was a very long read.

TLLOTS · Oct 20, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Agreed. The lack of a monthly fee was a major factor in my decision to purchase Guild Wars.

I used to play Ragnarok Online, and while the game was nothing but a huge grind fest, I still quite enjoyed it in the beginning. The monthly fee though was what killed it for me. Whenever I wasn't playing there'd always be that feeling of guilt, that I wasn't getting my moneys worth unless I was playing every moment I could. Eventually it got to the point where I wasn't playing to have fun, I was playing to rid myself of that guilt, and once I realised that I stopped playing and never went back.

Being able to play whenever I want for however long I want without that feeling of guilt really is fantastic. I feel like I've already more than got my moneys worth out of Guild Wars, so now it's just all about enjoying myself which is what any game should be about.

Oct 20, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

The no monthly fee was the ONLY reason I bought it. The game just couldn't compete with WOW if they introduced monthly fees, and I think they knew that.

I don't feel like they deserve thanks for introducing a no monthly fee game, as this game as good as it is, is not worth paying a monthly fee. I am sure if they could get away with having monthly fees, they would. Look at Auto Assault and how that worked with a monthly fee.

ThunderStruck · Oct 20, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Wow, I'm glad GW doesn't force you to play that 30+ hours a week just to stay "current!"

DarthLasing · Oct 20, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

That was a long, inspiring read. This person is a great example of those lost to any MMO's.
The ONLY reason, I bought guild wars was the freedom of a over-expensive monthly fee. Me and friend we're browsing around sites, googling everyday for a free mmo. We've tried many Korean grind fest, but we'rent worth it, we tried WoW private servers, but it still wasn't worth it competing with players who have "donater items". So one day, browsing at a downtown mall. We go to a EB games..
There it is, a big box, that says "Guild Wars". We look at it in awe. Hoping for no monthly fees. At the side of the box, it says "Free Online Play". *Angel Chorus*. We we're amazed, me and friend asked so many questions to the current worker. We both pre-ordered, and started characters once it came out. It was a fun game, but also keeping up with relationships with friends, current girlfriends, and also introducing them to the game. I have now played for quite some time, But not addictively. This is a great CORPG, stated by a.net, that this is not a mmo, which I believe is not.
Thank you a.net, for a great game.

lilnate22 · Oct 20, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MONKEYSUGAR

The no monthly fee was the ONLY reason I bought it. The game just couldn't compete with WOW if they introduced monthly fees, and I think they knew that.

I don't feel like they deserve thanks for introducing a no monthly fee game, as this game as good as it is, is not worth paying a monthly fee. I am sure if they could get away with having monthly fees, they would. Look at Auto Assault and how that worked with a monthly fee.

ehh.. not rely ur comparing apples to oranges. thought they are both fruit (gw+wow=computer game)
they are different. gw is more stratigical than wow and wow is more pve oriented than gw

they both have thier goods and bads.
but im still glad that i will never have that "guilt" feeling if i had monthly pay.

Phoebe · Oct 20, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

MonkeySugar, you are completely missing the point.
Monthly fee based MMORPGs are designed as grinding traps, Guild Wars isn't a grind based game like WoW.
In the MMORPG world, 'no monthly fee' is synonymous for 'not grind based'. As grind is the usual element that is used to prevents players from moving through all the content and then stopping paying monthly fees.

Without the grind WoW wouldn't have been a success because the actual gameplay in WoW is really bland and boring. The primary reason people play the game after the initial 'game discovery phase' is the illusion of future success through time investment (aka. "I'll have fun when I finally get 'X'."). That supposedly makes grinding for xp, grinding for mats/gold, grinding for quests (yes, quests in WoW are mostly thinly veiled grind) and grinding for epics... 'fun'.
Remove the grind from WoW and WoW wouldn't be able to compete with GW.

This is why I like GW, I play GW because I actually enjoy playing GW; I enjoy the chalenges, I enjoy the adventures, I enjoy improving my abilities, I enjoy trying new things.
And when I don't feel like playing GW, or when I have better/important stuff to do, I can stop playing GW without eDrama.

lilnate22 · Oct 20, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe

MonkeySugar, you are completely missing the point.
Monthly fee based MMORPGs are designed as grinding traps, Guild Wars isn't a grind based game like WoW.
In the MMORPG world, 'no monthly fee' is synonymous for 'not grind based'. As grind is the usual element that is used to prevents players from moving through all the content and then stopping paying monthly fees.

Without the grind WoW wouldn't have been a success because the actual gameplay in WoW is really bland and boring. The primary reason people play the game after the initial 'game discovery phase' is the illusion of future success through time investment (aka. "I'll have fun when I finally get 'X'."). That supposedly makes grinding for xp, grinding for mats/gold, grinding for quests (yes, quests in WoW are mostly thinly veiled grind) and grinding for epics... 'fun'.
Remove the grind from WoW and WoW wouldn't be able to compete with GW.

This is why I like GW, I play GW because I actually enjoy playing GW; I enjoy the chalenges, I enjoy the adventures, I enjoy improving my abilities, I enjoy trying new things.
And when I don't feel like playing GW, or when I have better/important stuff to do, I can stop playing GW without eDrama.

point well proven. that is why 99% of monthly fees are traps,im not saying that WoW is a bad game, it actualy fun and exciting ONLY after you see the mask it wears.

WOW is probably up there w/ the top guys at ruining lives, i kno it is sad.. but u wont realize it untill it happens to u

GloryFox · Oct 20, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Wow... what an incredible read...

Thank you for posting this and Thank you ANET for

1 No monthly Fee's
2 The top armor in the game cost 1.5k per piece
3 Level 20 cap.

The list can go on and on

I was so moved by what I read I will post this to my Guild Officers for required reading.

dreamhunk · Oct 20, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

games are to help us in life not destory us! that is why I beleave the rpg is important.

any way I have always said that wow is unheathly game. i really beleave goverments should crack down on it

I would never leave my girl for game ever

Desires · Oct 20, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Thats pretty much why I quit Runescape Was always focused on staying in the high rankings and when it would take you depending on skills months of grinding to get it up high enough it was why do I do this. I mean after you get 92 in a skill you need to double your current exp to get 99 and thats each skill. IIRC it was 13mil exp per skill at 99 and when I played heavy grinding could get you 20k exp per hour in combat skills(after about 70-80 before that less....).

I still know people who to stay in the top1k HAVE to play atleast 6 hours of heavy grinding or more a day.

Slainster · Oct 20, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I think the point the point of the post was not monthly fee's guys, but how online gaming can suck your life away if you are not careful!

llsektorll · Oct 20, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

thank you anet for making a game that requires IQ and not hours played to prove your worth....

lilnate22 · Oct 20, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

very true points were broght up.. i recently wached the WOW episode of southpark and realized how gay RPGS were w/o a lvl cap. i kno alot of people were complaining about the lvl20 cap and so was i back in the day. but now i realize that w/o lvl 20 cap, i would have had to drind my way to get to the higher lvls usualy abandoning my RL. im oh so glad that gw has a lvl cap.

just emagine bieng around a lvl90 in gw... u KNOW that is sum lil punk w/o a life. but he still wil act all arrogent and hotheaded..

thank god for lvl cap

dansamy · Oct 20, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

I hated the endless Baal runs for lvl 99 in D2, which is probably a drop in the bucket to some other games and their "depth". ("Depth" = amount of grind required)

I have, admittedly, played waaaaay too much GW. Here lately, I've slacked off due to it being my final semester of RN school. (Yay!!) But, GW is a game I can shelve and come back to it later. It's not going to get 50 new player levels in 3 months while I have to do RL stuff. It's not going to introduce 100 new items, 10 of which I absolutely have to have in order to remain competitive. Most of the problems I see in GW have either been addressed or there's been an explanation or there's a solution in the pipeline. The only thing I'm still whining over is the faction cap, which is ridiculously low at 10, 000. I think it should at least match the gold storage capacity at 1mil.

Pickle · Oct 20, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilnate22

i realized how grateful i am that anet does not charge a monthly fee.

now imagine if you had to pay say $15 a month like WoW to play GW... wouldnt you be some what FORCED to play enuf so you get "bang for your buck"?

since GW charges no monthly fee i am free to stop anytime i want and continue anytime i want.

that bieng said thank you anet and ne other person that works there

I agree with you there totally. When I played WoW, each day I woke up I was feeling presured into playing it, to get my moneys worth. It took me about a year to realise that it was a vicious circle and give it up.

Now I thought throughout my play time that if I gave up, I would disappointed in myself because I worked so hard on it and it would go to waste. Not the case at all. The reason I quit was because I met my girlfriend. Im really glad she came along other wise I think I would still be stuck in the ever getting deeper hole. When I stopped playing, actually felt so much better, I was out every day, meeting new folk all the time, it was amazing. I have now gave my WoW account to my nextdoor friend so I never go back to it.

Why I started WoW I really don't know, I bought Guild Wars on release, played if for ages, all night sometimes (not proud of it but I was hooked). I did feel presured into getting to level 20, thats what happens when you start playing with your real life friends, its a race. But once I reached that, I didnt feel presured at all, I was out just like normal and coming home to play Guild Wars after my homework/coursework. Working towards that 15k armour was fun doing, knowing I would look the part I got it and doing it when I had the time with no one rushing me. Then WoW changed me, I started skipping coursework, social visits. Now im back at Guild Wars absolutly amazed at how much the game has changed, finding out tons of new stuff and working towards it in my time.

The moral of the story - Do not play WoW.

Abade · Oct 20, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Guys i belive you are removing the essential message from the original (and informative) post.

The fact of the matter is, the thing being discussed was not the monthly fee for WoW (altough i will get into it in a bit) but the addiction it provides.

But that is also true for GW.

I first bought the Prophecies set December 2005, imediatly loved the game and the comunity, and went on to play every single day for about an 8 months. At first the game enchanted me, and i loved (never having played online RPGs) the concept of the game changing in time, with holiday seasons and lots of potential fun things you could do - I played every single day.. mostly cause i was abroad and could keep in touch with my friends, but also to be better than the rest, to be more than the 1000s priests that looked just like me..

The addiction settled in, and i had to be the best, do the best, have the most gold - for which, by the way, you have to grind - what do you think fow armor is for? to incentivate grinding...

I am however a player of classical RPGs.. i played final fantasy, phantasy star, shining force, kotor, and all sorts of games where the story absolutly fascinated me.

This game, GW started by having a potentially tremendous story. By the time i had finished prophecies, i tought "well.. there were inumerous flaws to the storyline.. but it was ok, and maybe they'll unveil more of it in factions.."

I won't get into that but you all know that didn´t happen. And not only dind´t it happen, but the storyline of factions was... bad. No real motivation for the charater (shiro) to do what he did...

What really Puzzeled me was ANet's posture on the original game - no further changes, large updates, but the minor event and skill balance changes..

So the original game died.

When factions came out, we were mostly forced to buy it. Because it was new, because it would give better stuff to our characters, and mostly, because everyone else was playing it and the cities of the original game were deserted.

Hence, finishing factions, the fun i had in the game died. I kept on playing for a while, as a guild leader, but there was nothing new... and the new alliance chat just made it impossible to listen to 8 different guilds, where confusion reigned.

I now play wow. And this is not a comment on both games, altough i can tell you that wow as a much greater depth than gw (altough the chat interface of GW kicks buttocks).

Remember.. when the next expansion comes out (nightfall), you WILL be forced to buy it or fall behind your friends that did, and keep one or two previous games with no further content planned... the old games just die, stop growing.

And will paying 50E every six months be that diferent from 13E month? just a little bit..

Ps: feel free to flame me all you want. I don't really care. My only point was to pass my message.

Omega X · Oct 20, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Why do people keep posting that same article over and over again.

nuee · Oct 20, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

In reality, you do pay an average "monthly" fee for GW.

1 account, updated every 6 months for $50 = about $8/month.

2 accounts (addicted people like me), updated every 6 months for $100 = about $16/month.

Not to mention additional costs like pre-release bonus packs.

But it's a blast, so we pay it willingly.